Posted 2 Jun 2010 Vic Greenie Last edited: 16 Jun 2010
I've been a greenkeeper for 31 years and still on $16.60 an hour, are there any other trades that pay so low ??
Posted 2 Jun 2010 KeepitSharp///
Easy NO!
Gotta move up then Greenie!
Are you a super after 31 years? I'm just an apprentice and still a long way off nudging the $10 lol.
Although I know the fully qualified guys at our work get about $18.50 once they have there ticket.
Check out this page on the site http://www.pitchcare.com.au/magazine/article/1899 maybe your getting under paid
Oh and it's only us chums who don't get paid well. Our super is on more than 100k with car phone travel etc etc.
Sorry to take over the thread but this subject annoys me!
One of the guys at tradeschool from a big VIC club wont mention names. The the 2IC is on over 70k and they have a 3IC, Spraytech, Gardner and Mechanic all over 60k. Super is on over 120k! then the regular guys who do all the bloody work an 7 days a week barely scrape the 30k mark. What the f*#k is up with that! It's bulls#@t really no wonder no one stays in the job!
It's just the regular Joe who loves the job who cant make a living from it. There is a couple of guys at our work in there 40's still live at home just regular greenkeepers. They can't afford to buy a house or even rent, let alone go on holidays. Pretty sad live really.
We have to do a 4 year apprenticeship then can do a 3 year diploma which it seems must do now and for what? 30k and 7 days a week on s#@t hours?
What does it take to change this? Union anyone?? Long overdue! Wish someone who has been in the industry for awhile had some balls and thought about us little guys! hint hint all your wanker supers who think your better than us!
RANT OVER!!!
BASS OUT!
Posted 3 Jun 2010 Dyson Appleyard
I'm agree with Vic Greenie, we are in an underpaid trade. I'm on bowling greens and really our wages are determined by how much the club can afford. Unlike the big clubs in NSW, here in Victoria... some clubs just can't afford to pay us what were are really worth
I'm 2IC but get this, only get paid as such when the super is on holidays. Is this common practice or permitted? Anyone else in this position?
The super is only on 2IC wages and he's been there for over 30 years ?? This could be a record!
Dead right Dyson, and the state government did us no favours paticularly in S.A. with the pokies being allowed into the pubs, there could have been sporting clubs pumping in S.A. if they had have just kept them to the clubs like nsw and qld and the whole community would have benefited. Sporting clubs are supposed to be non for profit organisations but are expected to operate like corporations yet are run by volunteers!When does the sporting club get a break, yeah we scramble over grants which gets less and less as more clubs struggle and need help. It's time the industry is properly valued if it wasn't for turfees providing surfaces and mum and dad(tax payers) paying for it the world we live in would be undoubtedly be *****. In short alot more needs to be done with respect to government funding particularly at grass roots level but also on the ability of clubs to survive and succeed in todays economic climate where even the elite clubs seem to be unable to avoid the Storm.
Posted 3 Jun 2010 Anonymous
VIC Greenie sounds like your getting ripped off to me! I'd be asking a few questions that's for sure sounds. Sounds rubbish
sounds like vic greenie is not prepared to shake the tree. i have seen cases like these but the clubs will only pay the bare award if they have to, if you are a valued employee who has been there a long time and knows the ins and outs of the place then they wont want to lose you, go and ask for a payrise if not then leave and see what the response will be.
Posted 3 Jun 2010 Anonymous
Here is a true story.
Our company, a leading supplier to the turf industry advertised for a new position.
On offer was a base salary that would be double the average wage of a greenkeeper.
A fully maintained motor vehicle.
Phone/computer/expence account.
A career path to die for.
And how many underpaid/overworked/under appreciated turfies jumped at this amazing position?
None.
Time to look outside the square people.
Does anyone have a link to the current correct award rates for greenkeepers?
Need to arm myself with the facts, correct rates so I can give the tree a decent shake.
Is $18.50 the correct rate with the ticket?
Posted 3 Jun 2010 Anonymous
Afraid it is only $15 an hour for fully qualified Greenie.
A full week is just under 600 - $575 a week for a 38hour week
#And true story anonymous ask yourself this would you have employed a greenkeeper who had been in the trade for 5 years? No! you companies always want someone who has been around for years and years a superintendent pal you sell to already that buys your products.
And besides what has becoming a travelling rep got to do with greenkeeping? It's a different job! Your in sales mate. Maybe if you took a look inside our square once in awhile. We do this job for love not money but I agree the wages are a joke and it would be nice to buy a house one day.
I was just doing a search for you Vic Greenie and its disgusting how hard it is to find this information! This is something that should be easily accessible for greenkeepers and groundsman.
Maybe Pitchcare can find us the answer when your back in the office tom?? hint hint!!
http://www.fwa.gov.au/consolidated_awards/an/an150060/asframe.html
To add links guys just don't attach the http://
To add a link.
Click on link above
Start the link as www.
Paste link
Click OK
Just thought I'd help out as I see a few that are like above me
http://www.fwa.gov.au/consolidated_awards/an/an150060/asframe.html
If you want bold or italic in a posting your given this:
And you just enter the text you want in bold between the arrows. 
Nice link Nobby cheers.
Thanks Sarah keep up the good work.
All you greenkeepers are lazy to begin with!
Get a real job and grow up, move out of home you bums!
Contribute to society and leave cutting grass to criminals on day release and spastics!
Posted 3 Jun 2010 Roaring Silence Last edited: 3 Jun 2010
Quality last post that one Golfer, added plenty to the discussion 
Peter - I've got to say you are off the mark here, you need to remember those guys who are up the 'tree' so to speak on the good dollars started somewhere themselves, they were all apprentices at one time and most have worked hard to get where they are. You should never begrudge the dollars anyone earns.
When I started as an apprentice I was on $136 a week before tax, admittedly 25 years ago but I can tell you it didn't go far when your mum took $50 for board 
Posted 4 Jun 2010 Anonymous
To Anon,
#1 Did you read my post correctly - none of you applied, so dont blame me for not employing you!!
#2 Was not a reps position
#3 Want to buy a house one day - stop cutting grass
Lots of us 'in the trade' did our tickets and woke up to the fact that while it may be really enjoyable to be outside on a mower, it pays like crap and got out.
Tell you wife and kids about your 'love' of your job when you struggle to put food on the table, or take them on a decent holiday.
True Story.
I know guys in councils who are on golf courses on 50k with a 9 day fortnight.
Look to councils- might be worth a try.
Wonder what consultants get for thier role , Ive heard in the vicinity of $100 hr.
Amazing isnt it.
Why dont all greenies form a collabrative approach and stick together, maybe then we can shake the tree.
very true dr. there are many well paid greenkeepers out there but to be honest they have earnt the right to do so as they have worked hard and bargined thier way to the better money. if you want to get ahead in the trade you have to be prepared to move, if in city as a 2ic or 3ic then go to the bush as a super, then you have a foot in the door, if people just sit and wait for others above them to retire so they can move up then it can be a long wait. not trying to upset anybody here and sorry if i have done so
Posted 4 Jun 2010 Anonymous
dr Dilby's is correct i'm a greenkeeper but now on the council in tas in non management position $52000pa
Roaring Silence it has been known for me to be wrong before I admit it is rare. 
I just have a chip on my shoulder about this as our boss is pretty lazy. I'll admit I did paint a pretty broad stroke with my brush however.
Posted 4 Jun 2010 Anonymous
Council = Lazy Cowboy + Sellout
Sorry but it's true. Might be a few exceptions but rare. That's why council run courses are *****
To the anonymous who had the great job and had no greenkeeper's apply.
I have to say A fully maintained motor vehicle. + Phone/computer/expense account. And it has nothing to do with Sales at all????? Really what was it then? Were about was it advertised? Did you market the ad for greenkeepers to apply? I'm sure it's not as black and white as your making out.
Also your basically saying that greenkeeping is a dead end job and to give up on it.
I think this thread is about saying it shouldn't be a dead end job. It should pay well and something should be done about it.
Everything on this to me is saying we need a Union just for the Turf Industry. Improve our conditions, pay and hours!
Posted 4 Jun 2010 Anonymous
Hi Joe,
Not a dead end job at all. Never said that. Just be honest with yourself and say greenkeeping is not rocket science and making it out be something it is not is deceiving no one.
I also didnt say it had nothing to do with sales either. It was not a reps job though. Think of it this way, we are all selling something, whether you are sitting on a mower everyday making the golf course perfect for the members to play - you are in fact selling the golf course to the public. You just dont collect the money yourself, the club does on your behalf. Or whether you are in a product support role for an irrigation/machinary/chemical company, you may not do any transactions, but you are selling the product.
You dont have to be actually selling a product to have a car and expenses attached to your job.
Greenkeepers that rubbish the trade industry as a career have missed the wood for the trees.
Have a good look at the advertisers on this website and ask yourself, does everyone in those companies rep? of course not, there are numerous jobs involved in providing products and services.
Believe me Joe it is black and white - I mix with numerous trade industry people and the conversation is always the same. Why dont good greenkeepers get off their backside and see that beyond the wire fence of the golf course is a huge industry and endless careerpath just waiting to be uncovered.
Posted 4 Jun 2010 Joe kewell Last edited: 4 Jun 2010
It might not be rocket science no, but what job is?
However it is a tough job which requires working in all sorts of conditions and clearly for the amount of schooling you have to do just for a ticket this day and age its not just a dodo job for any tom dick or Harry.
It can be as complicated as you want to make it but end of the day your using machinery that costs 10's of thousands of dollars that can be very dangerous, then comes the chemical side of things which not everyone can do. You have rates and calculations which are extremely important then you have fertilisers which can make and break a golf course. It can be a dangerous job and your working around public, it's hardly for the dim witted.
Learning about chemicals, fertilisers, soil and what everything does and the results your achieve is a science that's under appreciated. Even mowing on a golf course is hardly the same as cutting rough for a council. You go put anyone a mower and ask them to cut diamonds and straight lines and its something that can take years to master. The job is also very physical and is not something you could do to retirement age, hence your wage should accommodate this!
Your attitude makes me wonder just how long you spent on a course? As I don't think any greenkeeper who takes the job seriously would have opinions such as these.
Why should guys who work and have studied hard have to look outside the box? Surely a base wage of $45k for a fully qualified greenkeeper is not just a dream, it's should be something that has been earnt. When you add over time you can make a living on that.
And if you do a diploma then it should be another 10k straight out.
I'm not saying everyone who works on a course should earn this but guys who do there ticket and study should. Unqualified should earn standard labour wage.
Getting off our backsides is done every morning also mate, are you up and outside in the dark manicuring greens before 6am?
Posted 4 Jun 2010 Anonymous
Joe,
This is my last post as I dont want this to end up being personal and I feel you are getting the wrong end of the stick from my postings.
I do happen to agree with your comments in regards to the skills required to do the job. Some turf managers are very good at what they do and have studied hard.
Some have not and are paid what they are worth.
However this is an age old arguement, turf managers getting underpaid. It wont be solved here.
Look at the US as an example. The average groundsman has little education and works for minimum wage, the 2IC and Superintendent are university qualified. The groundsman knows he will never be in charge so is not hung up on being paid the lowly wage.
Here is Australia we have created a fully fledged qualification out of what would normally be considered an 'unskilled' job. So when people here do their trade and get diplomas etc they are frustrated that the jobs and money does not automatically flow.
Am I wrong?
One last thing to ponder. With the exception of the Superintendent and 2IC, we would have more qualified staff per golf course crew than an equivalent US golf course crew.
Pound for pound, which courses are better maintained?
Posted 4 Jun 2010 Anonymous
Hey Guys , It,s pretty simple , put ya balls on the line , be willing to move any where , work stupid hours , be prepared to walk away from a job if they don,t pay you what you want and you might get some where , people who sit there and complain about wages and conditions and are not willing to do something about it deserve what they get , and I don,t mean looking up what the government says they should be payed , If ya want the big bucks ,grow some nuts
Posted 4 Jun 2010 Anonymous
AMEN!
While I like to be a distant observer on the message board for obvious reasons. Both parties make good points here.
I support the theory that qualified greenkeepers should earn a higher wage however I agree with 'be willing to move and walk away from a job if it's going nowhere'
Our industry is very diverse and there is a lot of money out there just be prepared to work and move to get it.
Lot's of Aussie's and Kiwi's are overseas earning amazing money on top courses and stadiums because our skills and training are second to none. Some top Turfie's I know around the world name a price when they take a job and they get it!
Don't give in on the industry and if you feel your not being paid enough say something. If your as good as you think you are half the time your employee will come to the party with the goodies. If not be prepared to walk away and back yourself to find another job with better prospects.
It's good to see your going in armed with some info for a raise Vic Greenie I hope you get it and do let us all know how you get on.
Best of luck,
Rob
Checked out the award link however there is very little detail as to define a 2IC ?
What category would a super and 2IC come under? I remember years ago seeing a detailed description of these trades and the appropriate hourly rates , however nothing is listed under the awards rates on the above link.
Posted 5 Jun 2010 Anonymous
OK this really is my last post.
My longwinded and perhaps not well made point is this.
If you are waiting to be paid good money for sitting on a mower, you will be waiting a long time. Qualifications or not. Get off the mower and have a good look around, you might be suprised what you find within the turf industry that you enjoy.
Posted 5 Jun 2010 Anonymous
The trick is to do something about conditions when you have a chance, Most supers would rather spend an extra 30k on chemicals than distribute it amongst staff.
Mr Bass, if you ever make a position of Management i hope you are still as passionate for the 'little guy' as you are now.
Often people with similar beefs as you soon forget about the "little guy ' when they land their job of choice.
Posted 7 Jun 2010 Anonymous
Did anyone apply for the job at Waverley Council in Sydney. The job was a Parks Supervisor and was paying up to $68000 + car + phone+ 9% super + 9 day fortnight
Posted 7 Jun 2010 Anonymous
Great reading boy's, took me 2 cans to get through it all :)
Hey guys just thought I'd let ya know the award for greenkeepers is about to increase from the 1st july!The current gov has decided in all it's inyelligence to condense all national awards for industry into 120, now apparently we come under gardening/landscaping? does anyone find this an insult? ah well that question won't matter if more cash is involved.I hear there are some problems with the new system but apparently it is open to modifications.hmmm?
I just rang wageline and according to them our club is under no obligation to pay any more than $14.31 per hour!
Apparently the club does'nt have to comply with the standard federal award??
Anyhow SA Boys post offers a glimmer of hope. Lets keep this thread going and just see how many of us get a pay increase from 1st July.
Sounds a bit rough Vic Greenie. Surely with the years you have put in at the place it should have risen as well what a joke!
Anonymous asking about the job were did you advertise it? Were do turfies look for work? Here obviously and the agcsa is all i know of.
1st time on here in a long time,it was good reading,i think it is the same here in sunny england lol,we all moan about the money etc,how many hrs aweek do you work over there,i was hoping to move over to ur side of the world,what are the ticket you are alon about,lookforward to ur replys,
Posted 11 Jun 2010 The Big Easssy
38 hours is the regular working week redtail. However the average greenkeeping week is more like 60 lol
If your on a half decent golf course or stadium with cricket or football it's mostly a 7day week for a lot of the guys. All for the pleasure of an average of $16 an hour.
Ticket is just a slang word for fully qualified. Once you have your apprenticeship sort of thing. Most trades call it a ticket over here.
Best of luck moving over least we get a bit more sun over here 
we work a 40hr week ,weekend rota flat week take home 300 how does that compare to you over there,
Posted 11 Jun 2010 The Big Easssy
When you take it on a stock week we might be a little better off. Then again maybe rent and food and beer cost more over here so it might all even out in the end.
Average wage here must be about $600 for the 38hours.
Whats a beer costing you boys at the local this day and age.
Posted 11 Jun 2010 wade_j Last edited: 11 Jun 2010
ive recently returned from the UK and definitely things are ridculously expensive here in OZ!!! IMO. surviving on $600 a week is difficult @ best. Nearly 20bucks for a six pack here.
in the UK the local offy at the end of my street you can still buy 6x500ml cans of Fosters for £6. Less than $10 AU. (Probably because its fosters!!!)
i think in both countries, life as a turfie is a hard slog, financially. But i would say that apart from the pay issue,working conditions and weather conditions are far more pleasant here in OZ...
How was your time in the UK Nobby? Did you take much away from it? How would you compare their greenkeeping skills to ours, more or less knowledgeable on all things turf?
I've always been interested in doing a turf tour of the old mother country one day.
Posted 14 Jun 2010 couch rules Last edited: 14 Jun 2010
link for classification for each level can be found here http://www.psv.com.au/turf_level_2.htm
Posted 14 Jun 2010 couch rules Last edited: 14 Jun 2010
found another more up to date award, it involves lots of info and is quite long and you have to read through to find the relevant greenkeepers stuff.
http://www.siag.com.au/modern_awards/LicensedClubsAwd2010.pdf
Posted 14 Jun 2010 Vic Greenie
Very appropiate the first link how they have "bull' written after each grade, could'nt agree more!
Still have'nt found any links to what a 2IC is entitled to
Posted 14 Jun 2010 couch rules
would imagine a 2IC would fit into level 3 at bare minimum.
The job at Waverely Council was advertised on the Australian Local Government job directory
www. job-directory.com.au/
it seems we are all in the same boat,inregards to the pay,a lot of golf clubs over here will not pay bigga rates,lets face it why do with do it,we all get moaned at by the members,dont forget they are all greenkeepers so they think,we should all be in the same union,stand up for what is right,only dreaming lol
Yes have to agree as greenkeepers we get paid less than say builders ,painters etc.Yet am still in the trade after all these years !
Posted 20 Jun 2010 Vic Greenie Last edited: 20 Jun 2010
Is ther anyone getting paid less than $16.60 after 31 years? I hope not .
sorry to sound thick vic,but how much is that to the english pound,i might know someone lol
Posted 22 Jun 2010 Vic Greenie
About 9.90 English pound.
then yes u r on more than some of the lads at r place,not done over 30yrs thow,but have the tickets
hey are all u guys loving ur payrises that are now in force
Posted 11 Jul 2010 Vic Greenie
What the deal couch rules have you hard of anyone getting the payrise or is it just heresay ?
Posted 12 Jul 2010 couch rules
was meaning the $8 week tax cut, all should have that in pockets by now
Posted 12 Jul 2010 Vic Greenie
I was curious about SA Boys post on June 9 about the greenkeepers award aligning with landscapers and gardeners, anyone have anyone heard more about this ?
will be in touch vic greenie to let you know all i can, we are members of business sa and it seems all hell could break loose yet but then again fuc all might happen too, but from what i know thus far it is all related to the current gov condensing the award system.....
Posted 13 Jul 2010 Vic Greenie
Thanks mate lets hope something positive comes our way for a change..
Well if you don't already know the the government has condensed the awards through industries and ours is now known as the Landscaping and Greenkeeping award. Your employer will have and should have by law a copy for you to peruse at any time. You may be entitled to an extra 50 cents an hour Vic Greenie so check it out. I find it offensive that we have been included in the landscaping award for many reasons. Read it lads head to toe.
Posted 14 Sep 2010 Vic Greenie
Thanks for the update pretty sure the employer has'nt received any update on the award . Do you know if there is a link to check it out? 50 cents an hour is about what you'd expect tho
See if you can just google it for now mate but I will find out more specifics when I get to the office and keep you posted.
We get the info from Businees SA , but they would be provided that by Workplace Services I would say. $17.46 per hour for level 4 greenkeeper so it's an 80 cents improvement mate that is due from the 1st of July 2010.
You all get what you deserve unskilled unqualified bums!
Don't like the money go and get a real job and do some work!
Posted 14 Sep 2010 Roaring Silence
Added plenty that one
Wonder where you'd gone Golfer, get back under that rock you turd!
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